Another Saabista uses ethanol

An anonymous comment:

I have an '04 Saab 9.3 2T Aero w/6 speed manual non-flex. The preferred fuel for me in it is E20-E30. With 90 octane NL the turbo will only spool to red zone- with E20 it will peg if you nail it and you better get ready for some torque steer. I buy this for about 25 cents less than what 90 octane NL costs. While I have tested E10-E60 in my none flex vehicles and all blends in my flex vehicles for mpg-- I have not yet done this on the Saab. (I picked it up last fall and as a 2wd and low skirt Aero version- it was parked for the winter)

So I'm not the only eccentric Saabista messing around with E85. Cool!

Sounds like Anon is from Minnesota.

My 2.0T has the premium package, which includes the 17 inch rims and skirts from the Aero. I wish I could have gotten the 60th Anniversary package that included the Aero seats. My seats are nice, but the Aero seats are near perfect (and the Convertible seats ARE perfect.)

I guess we don't get enough snow here in the Chicago area to worry about "the snow plow effect" of the air dam. I do scrap the air dam on my driveway every time I pull out, though!

The second tank!

Sorry for not posting, I've been on vacation. I drove my wife's van, a 2002 Chevy Venture minivan with 62k miles. Seeing as how this is a very used vehicle (as opposed to my 6 month old Saab) and not under warranty, I don't put E85 in it.

Meijer had E85 for $2.75 a gallon yesterday. Even though I wasn't on empty, I filled up with E85. They had 87 octane gas for $3.25 a gallon, so the spread between E85 and regular has opened up to 50 cents a gallon. Nice.

My mileage on the previous tank, which was 30% ethanol, was 23.5 mpg. This is about 1 mpg less than I normally get on straight Amoco Ultimate.

Stats for the new tank:

Gallons E85 (70% ethanol): 7.508
Gallons 87 Octane gas (10% ethanol): 4.595
Gallons left from last tank (30% ethanol): 4.297

Ethanol content of new tank: 42.71%

Octane of new tank: 95.147

Fuel savings (E85 @ $2.75/gal, 87 @ $3.25/gal, 93 @ 3.45/gal): $6.17/ tank

So far I've driven about 20 miles. Driveability is fine and no check engine light. Mileage is attrocious so far (19.8 mpg) but I did drive about 5 miles of local last night. The drive to work this morning took it from 11.8 mpg to 19.8 mpg. I had the cruise set at 65 mph where I could on Cline Ave. That's my new top speed!

I also pumped up the tires to the max they're rated for, 35 psi. Ride is QUITE firm.

The drive home should be interesting.

E85 map of NWI

Just how much ethanol is in that there pump?

Sorry, I posted Illinois instead of Indiana, but they're the same numbers.

This time of year we're Volatility 3, which is 70% ethanol. We are going into 2/3, which could be 70 or 74% ethanol, or a mixture. The summer we get 79% ethanol, minimum.

E85 Availability in NWI

Locations in Munster, Dyer, Hammond, Hobart, Merilville...

Almost no excuse NOT to gas up with E85!

More on the energy intensity of E85

From Autoweek

The ethanol used to make E85 comes mostly from corn. One bushel of corn produces 2.8 gallons of ethanol. The corn is ground into a powder, which is treated with water, enzymes and ammonia. It is heated and stirred, then cooled before yeast is added. That starts the process of converting sugars in the "mash" into alcohol. There are a few more steps before the ethanol is ready to be mixed with gasoline.

The bottom line: Making E85 is an energy-intensive process. Researchers are divided over whether ethanol is an energy loser. It can be if the corn has to be shipped long distances to an ethanol plant. Much of the cost-effectiveness of producing ethanol depends on where the refinery is.

Is E85 the next unleaded?

From Autoweek:

By now you’re probably aware of E85, whether you caught President George W. Bush hailing it in his State of the Union address or heard General Motors chairman Rick Wagoner touting it as he revealed his company’s line of flex-fuel vehicles.

So what’s all the hullabaloo? And if you want to help save the planet, should you hop on the E85 bandwagon?

E85 is the designation for a fuel that combines 85 percent ethanol with 15 percent gasoline. E85-compatible—or flex-fuel—vehicles can run on E85 or regular unleaded gasoline. Because the alcohol in E85 can break down rubbers and plastics used in typical internal-combustion engine fuel systems, vehicles must be specially modified to allow its use. And to obtain maximum power from higher-octane E85, engines must be tuned to run on it, or be able to adjust timing and the air-to-fuel ratio when running on E85.

Supporters say the alternative fuel is environmentally friendly, reduces dependence on fossil fuels and imported oil, and takes advantage of America’s surplus of agricultural crops, like corn, that can be readily converted to ethanol for use in E85.

Critics note insufficient ethanol production facilities exist to significantly offset the nation’s appetite for fuel, that refineries aren’t adapted to producing E85, and that E85 is harder to transport because its corrosiveness means it cannot flow through existing gasoline pipelines. In addition, in most states E85 costs about the same as unleaded regular while costing the driver up to 15 percent in fuel-economy penalties because it does not pack the same explosive punch as gasoline.

Those negatives aside, Phil Lampert, executive director of the National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition, sees a substantial upside—and predicts prices will drop as more ethanol production comes on line in the next 18 months. But even with ethanol production slated to nearly double in the next 10 years, E85 will remain a bit player in the U.S. fuel market for years to come—which is not to say you won’t be burning some ethanol. Blends of up to 10 percent ethanol with gasoline may become more commonplace soon. Ethanol enhances the octane rating of the fuel, supplanting the toxic additive MTBE, which itself substitutes for lead as an octane booster.

E85 vehicles remain a small niche, with about 70 models capable of running on the alcohol mixture on the U.S. market since 1998. GM, which claims industry leadership on promoting E85 use and awareness, recently made a substantial push into E85 vehicles, announcing its 2005 and 2006 sport/utility vehicles and pickups, along with two Chevrolet car models, are E85 compatible. The company has marketed 28 flex-fuel models since 2000. Chrysler, Dodge, Ford, Isuzu, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Mercury and Nissan have also sold or are still selling flex-fuel vehicles in the United States.

Owners of the estimated 5 million flex-fuel vehicles on the road today—those who deliberately bought a vehicle for its flex-fuel capability—are likely to find their E85 consumption limited by the short supply of E85 fuel pumps in most states outside the Midwest farm belt. The number of E85 fueling stations doubled from 2005 to 2006, but that still means you can buy it at only 600 of the nearly 200,000 fueling stations in the United States. In most states E85 outlets exist only in major population centers. As a result, owners of flex-fuel vehicles often have to run on regular unleaded gasoline.

Minnesota, which has passed legislation to support the use of ethanol, leads the nation with 208 stations offering E85, while Illinois ranks second with 117. But the numbers drop dramatically from there, and in 13 states—including a number of Northeastern states that pattern their strict emissions rules after California—E85 isn’t sold at a single station. In the eco-friendly Golden State you will need access to the private E85 pumps at Vandenberg Air Force Base to get a tankful, or you will have to live, work and play in San Diego, home of the only publicly accessible E85 filling station in California.

Does E85 use less fossil fuels?

From Autoweek:

Yellow gas caps denote E85 capable vehicles on products from GM.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

E85'S BOTTOM LINE
To power a vehicle the same distance as gasoline, E85 made from corn
Requires 24.3% more overall energy input
But consumes 32.9% less fossil energy
And expends 69.5% less petroleum energy
Source: Argonne National Laboratory


By HARRY STOFFER | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS

WASHINGTON -- Along with automakers, the Bush administration wants to end debate over whether ethanol made from corn yields more energy than does the fuel used to produce it.

The Energy Department's verdict: It does.

A new department brochure says that 740,000 British thermal units of fossil energy are consumed to make and deliver ethanol that contains 1 million Btu of energy. The latest version of the brochure, issued last month, is part of a broad department defense of ethanol.

The department cites an analysis by the Argonne National Laboratory, which identifies a big positive energy balance for corn ethanol. The calculation includes the natural gas, petroleum products, electricity and coal used to grow corn, distill it into alcohol and deliver ethanol. It does not count solar energy in the corn.

The analysis "has laid to rest some long-held misunderstandings about ethanol," the department says. Critics who call ethanol an energy loser don't account for the improving efficiency of ethanol plants or other benefits, the department adds.

When scientists perfect methods for making ethanol from plant debris — so-called cellulosic ethanol — the energy equation will look even better, the department says.

Critic unbowed

"Every argument they make is bogus," says Tad Patzek, one of the leading critics of ethanol, of the administration's defense. Patzek, a professor of chemical engineering at the University of California at Berkeley, vows to keep fighting ethanol.

Even if the administration's optimistic assumptions are granted, Patzek says, ethanol at best breaks even. That is, the energy derived from ethanol would be no greater than the energy used to make it, he says.

The technology to produce cellulosic ethanol is far from proven, Patzek adds. And it would threaten tropical ecosystems where plants would be harvested for ethanol.

Automakers build hundreds of thousands of vehicles each year that can run on E85. Those manufacturers — especially the Detroit 3 — want to see the debate ended in ethanol's favor. E85 consists of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline.

Beth Lowery, General Motors' vice president of environment and energy, says she knows of at least a dozen major studies of the energy balance of ethanol. Nine of them find ethanol to be an energy winner, she says. The Argonne study is the most important, she adds.

The disagreements among the studies reflect researchers' assumptions, Lowery says. Some analysts who declare ethanol an energy loser count the energy used to make trucks that haul corn, she says.

They also don't account for the value of ethanol byproducts, such as cattle feed that remains after the fuel is made, she adds. And ethanol critics rarely consider the amount of energy needed to deliver a gallon of gasoline to a service station, Lowery says.

Other hurdles

Ethanol faces other big obstacles. The fuel requires heavy government tax breaks to be economically competitive with gasoline. Fewer than 900 of the nation's 170,000 filling stations sell E85.

Ethanol got a big boost this year when President Bush, a former oil man, touted it as a way to break the nation's "addiction to oil."

The Union of Concerned Scientists, an environmental group, says ethanol made from corn offers limited environmental benefits and limited potential for large-scale replacement of petroleum. But it is a key to the transition to cellulosic ethanol, the group says.

Michael Wang, the Argonne analyst whose research model calculated ethanol's positive energy balance, believes the debate is overblown.

Wang says about two-thirds of the energy used to make electricity is lost before the current reaches consumers.

What will it take to expand E85 use?

Again from Autoweek

In spite of GM's "Live Green, Go Yellow" advertising blitz last year, retailers - and subsequently consumers - have been slow to adopt ethanol fuels.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By LESLIE J. ALLEN | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS

If it were just a matter of patriotism and environmentalism, E85 might be flowing through the tanks of every flexible-fuel vehicle in the United States. But the Detroit 3 - the auto industry's biggest ethanol supporters - have yet to make E85 appeal to driver's wallets.

Last week President Bush called for greater use of ethanol to make the nation less dependent on foreign oil. E85 is a blend of 15 percent gasoline and 85 percent ethanol. But flexible-fuel vehicles get 25 to 30 percent lower mileage when they run on E85 then when they operate on gasoline.

That's a huge marketing problem. How do you promote a fuel that won't get drivers as far down the road?

E85 must be priced about 20 percent below gasoline, said Curt Magleby, Ford Motor Co.'s director of U.S. state and local government relations.

Back to gas

Appeals to patriotism and environmentalism may work for a while, Magleby said. But consumers who lack a financial incentive to buy E85 are likely to return to gasoline.

"Without public perception of balue, we will never be able to sell E85 effectively," Magleby told Automotive News. "It's all about pricing, and that's the American way."

Agreeing with that assessment is General Motors, the most visible cheerleader for E85. "We don't want people paying more" for E85 than for gasoline, says Mary Beth Stanek, GM's director of environment and energy.

Many U.S. filling stations already charge lower prices for E85 - sometimes 35 or 40 cents a gallon less than gasoline. Some retailers are willing to take a financial hit on E85 to build business.

Others charge less because they have special purchasing agreements with fuel producers. And in some states, taxes on E85 are lower than those on gasoline.

The federal government gives retailers a one-time tax credit of as much as $30,000 to install ethanol pumps. Some states provide additional credits.

Not their job

Automakers have limited ability to promote ethanol use. They sell cars and trucks. It's up to ethanol producers and retailers to promote the fuel.

But oil companies don't install ethanol pumps. That's the task of filling station owners and regional convenience-store chains.

In turn, they work with small ethanol producers that hope to get in on the ground floor of a growth market.

"When the vision of the (energy) producers starts to shift - once they see profit potential and profit opportunity - they're the ones who have to market this," said Ford's Magleby.

GM made a big splash with its "Live Green, Go Yellow" advertising campaign for flex-fuel vehicles. But automakers' ethanol marketing consists largely of helping local retailers and government publicize the availability of E85 pumps.

The price of ethanol will drop when it's mass produced and widely available, says Reginald Modlin, the Chrysler group's director of environmental affairs.

"Then we can talk to the marketplace about 'Drive for less, use ethanol'," Modlin says. "We have to somehow convince the marketplace, consumers and policymakers that we have to stop talking about miles per gallon as a strict measure of the value of this."

What would be a more appropriate yardstick for fuel economy? Consumers could calculate their fuel use by the cost per mile rather than miles per gallon.

Looking for a bargain

If E85's price per gallon is at least 20 percent cheaper than gasoline, flex-fuel vehicles start to look like a bargain.

Will motorists buy that logic? Keep your eye on Minnesota. That state has the most ethanol pumps in the nation - nearly 300. Robert Moffitt, a spokesman for the American Lung Association of Minnesota, says he thinks consumers will buy E85 despite the lower mileage it gets.

Many vehicle buyers are concerned about curbing emissions of carbon dioxide and rducing dependence on Mideast oil, Moffitt says. They also want better horsepower, and E85 has higher octane than regular gasoline, he notes.

"You can't tow a boat with a Prius," Moffitt says. "But you can with an E85 pickup."

Autoweek's life with E85

Here

With a week booked in our long-term Suburban, I made it a point to test its flex-fuel capabilities and ran it through two tanks of E85 that my local gas station conveniently had on tap.

During the first fill-up it was clear that being eco-friendly, at least on this day, was not going to be cheap as one gallon cost $2.59. Regular gasoline, on the other hand, was selling for $2.19 a gallon. After quashing the urge to save $0.40, I went with the corn. The tab for the tank came to $65.29—it would have cost just $55.24 for the same amount of regular.

I couldn’t detect any performance difference between running on normal fuel and E85; the engine ran as smoothly as ever. Pictures of happy Midwest farmers began dancing in my head as I ran through the tank.

Those pictures quickly vanished when I calculated the fuel mileage at the next fill-up. On E85, the Suburban averaged 11.02 mpg on mixed city and highway driving. That’s a far cry from the 18 mpg (a goodly number for a vehicle this size, mind you) we averaged with plain ol’ gasoline.

Of course, some of the sting was alleviated on our second tank of E85 as the price had plummeted $0.51 to $2.08 per gallon in the matter of four days, making it cheaper than regular gas. Paying less for less is not so bad; it’s the paying more for less that stinks.

(During our last maintenance stop the service shop addressed a recall on the E85 ECU software; hopefully that will help our mileage if we ever choose to try the corn again.)

AutoWeek Executive Editor Wes Raynal, whose gushing love of the Suburban is, quite frankly, starting to put a few of us on edge, claims he “needs” the Suburban more than the rest of us because his weekends are filled with hauling kids and their gear to a myriad of sporting activities (whatever you need to tell yourself, Raynal). He says he noticed the plummeting mileage, but the Chevy ran exactly as it does on unleaded.

On a non-E85 note, Raynal says he also found the beast to be superb in the snow. “I never bothered with 4wd,” he said, “and the thing drives the same seemingly no matter the conditions. It [almost] makes me hope for a real snow fall so I can try the 4wd.”

Some stats on first tank

Gallons of E85: 5.575
Cost/ gallon E85: $3.049

The rest of the tank was 93 octane Amoco Ultimate

Octane/ tank: 95.378
Ethanol/ tank: 30.396%

Because I just topped off the tank, I don't have a good feel for what I paid for the 93 octane gas. However, at the time I filled up with E85, premium gas was $3.54 a gallon.

The rough cost savings of just the E85 fuel was 50 cents a gallon times 5.575 gallons, which works out to be $2.79 a tank.

I will update this with the mileage/ tank at the time of the next fillup. Mileage so far is 22.6 mpg.

Experiment with E85 update No. 1

I've gone through about a half a tank at 30% ethanol. No check engine light. It's hard to tell if there's a hit to mileage or not. My wife and her heavy foot drove the car, and I've done more local driving than normal. So far, I've averaged 22 mpg. The last tank of "normal" gas, with 10% ethanol, was about 24 mpg. But I also expect that mileage to improve, as I do only commuting this week.

Driveability is good. If there is less power, I can't feel it. I did feel a little "gutlessness" on the highway one day early on, but I haven't felt it since.

My next tank of gas will be 40% ethanol. I'm going to try and find out what the limit is, and then back off by 5% on the tank after that.

E85 mixtures get BETTER mileage?

Could be:

Research findings released today indicate that mid-range ethanol blends—fuel mixtures with more ethanol than 10% (E10) but less than 85% (E85)—can in some cases provide better fuel economy than regular unleaded gasoline, even in standard, non-flex-fuel vehicles. The new study, co-sponsored by the US Department of Energy and the American Coalition for Ethanol (ACE), also found that mid-range ethanol blends reduce harmful tailpipe emissions.

Previous assumptions held that ethanol’s lower energy content directly correlates with lower fuel economy for drivers. Those assumptions were found to be incorrect. Instead, the new research suggests that there is an optimal blend level of ethanol and gasoline—most likely E20 or E30—at which cars will get better mileage than predicted based strictly on the fuel’s per-gallon Btu content. The optimal blend varies with the vehicle, according to the findings.

The University of North Dakota Energy & Environmental Research Center (EERC) and the Minnesota Center for Automotive Research (MnCAR) conducted the research using four 2007 model vehicles: a Toyota Camry, a Ford Fusion and two Chevrolet Impalas, one flex-fuel and one non-flex-fuel.

…

E20 and E30 ethanol blends outperformed unleaded gasoline in fuel economy tests for certain autos. Contrary to Btu-based estimates of fuel economy for ethanol blends, three of the four vehicles tested achieved their highest fuel efficiency not on gasoline, but on an ethanol blend. Mid-level blends of ethanol E20 (20% ethanol, 80% gasoline) and E30 (30% ethanol, 70% gasoline) offered the best fuel economy in these tests.

E30 offered better fuel economy than gasoline (a 1% increase) in both the Toyota and the Ford.
E20 offered better fuel economy than gasoline (a 15% increase) in the flex-fuel Chevrolet.
The non-flex-fuel Chevrolet more closely followed the Btu-calculated trend for fuel economy, but did experience a significant improvement over the trend line with E40 (40% ethanol, 60% gasoline), indicating that this may be the optimal ethanol blend level for this vehicle.
The standard, non-flex-fuel vehicles operated well on ethanol blends beyond 10%. The Ford Fusion operated on E45, the Toyota on E65, and the non-flex-fuel Chevy on E55. No engine fault codes were displayed until these levels were surpassed.

Will E85 F-up my Saab?

I don't think so. Here is what GM says (Saabs are GM cars, believe it or not, that's why I drive it):

Bulletin 05-06-04-035B Customer Interest in E85 Fuel Use

Subject: Usage of E85 Fuels in GM Vehicles #05-06-04-035B - (05/31/2006)

Years: 1997-2007 All GM Cars and Trucks

Models: All GM Corp. Vehicles & Commercial or Medium Duty Trucks

As the retail price of gasoline increases, some locations in the country are seeing price differentials between regular gasoline and E85 where E85 is selling for substantially less than regular grade gasoline. One result of this is that some customers have inquired if they are able to use E85 fuel in non-E85 compatible vehicles.

Important: Only vehicles designated for use with E85 should use E85 blended fuel.

E85 compatibility is designated for vehicles that are certified to run on up to 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. All other gasoline engines are designed to run on fuel that contains no more than 10% ethanol.

Notice: containing greater than 10% ethanol in non-E85 designated vehicles can cause drivability issues, service engine soon indicators as well as increased fuel system corrosion. Using E85 in Non-Compatible Vehicles General Motors is aware of an increased number of cases where customers have fueled non-Flex Fuel designated vehicles with E85. Fueling non-Flex Fuel designated vehicles with E85, or with fuels where the concentration of ethanol exceeds the ASTM specification of 10%, will result in one or more of the following conditions:

1. Lean Drivability concerns such as hesitations, sags and / or possible stalling.
2. SES lights due to OBD codes.
3. Fuel Trim codes P0171 and / or P0174.
4. Misfire codes (P0300).
5. Various O2 sensor codes.
6. Disabled traction control or Stability System disabled messages.
7. Harsh / Firm transmission shifts.
8. Fuel system and / or engine mechanical component degradation.

Notice: Use of fuel containing greater than 10% ethanol in non-E85 designated vehicles can cause drivability issues, service engine soon indicators as well as increased fuel system corrosion. If the dealer suspects that a non-Flex Fuel designated vehicle brought in for service has been fueled with E85, the fuel in the vehicle's tank should be checked for alcohol content with tool J-44175. If the alcohol content exceeds 10%, the fuel should be drained and the vehicle refilled with gasoline - preferably one of the Top Tier brands.

Repairs to non-Flex Fuel vehicles that have been fueled with E85 are not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty. A complete list of GM’s Flex Fuel vehicles can be found in this Service

The finances of E85

Commenter g asks,

I am left with one question: Why?

You acknowledge that the mpg reduction exceeds the cost savings. I can appreciate the need to reduce reliance on imported fuel, but what about the effect of E85 (subsidized) production on food prices?

I don't think that the mpg reduction exceeds the cost savings, that's why.

If I used enough ethanol to just get the same octane as premium, I would use 4 gallons of E85. I would use 12.4 gallons of regular. I would save 50 cents per gallon for E85, and 20 cents per gallon for regular. I would end up with ~91 octane, which is more than enough for my engine (90 is recommended and provides full power).

I would be saving $4.48 per fillup. If my mileage decreases by 1 mpg because of the ethanol, that is a decrease of 4% in mileage. That costs about $2.14 a tank. So the net savings is $2.33 a tank.

Even then, there are advantages to ethanol. The Saab is a turbo. Turbos love ethanol. Some of the ethanol evaporates when it is injected into the engine. The heat of evaporation of the ethanol is such that it cools the intake charge, which acts like an intercooler. So there may be performance gains with E85 mixtures that I'm not including in the static analysis.

Mileage decrease from mixing E85 in Saab 9-3

Ethanol has an energy content of 82529 BTU/ gallon. Gasoline has an energy content of 114,000 BTU/ gallon. From that, I calculated the energy content of the actual mixture in the tank, and used that to determine how much less mileage you would get on a % basis.

Obviously, this is going to decrease your mileage a bit. In my case, a 6% decrease works out to be about 1.5 mpg, which is not a big number. I can cause a decrease in mileage more than that by just my driving technique.

Summer Blend E85 Mixtures in a Saab 9-3

Winter Blend E85 Mixtures in a Saab 9-3

Fun with Ethanol (the E85 kind!)

Usually, fun with ethanol involves getting wicked drunk.

I'm not talking about the kind of ethanol that you drink, I'm talking about the kind that you put in the tank of your car!

E85 is a mixture of ethanol and gas. In the winter, it is 70% ethanol and 30% gas (87 octane gas, I assume), and in summer it is 85% ethanol and 15% gas.

I recently noticed that the Meijer on the Boulevard in Highland has E85. They sell it for 30 cents less than regular.

This got me thinking. I drive a Saab, and Saab makes a version of my car that runs on E85 (called Biopower). Unfortunately, my car isn't E85 capable.

So I started looking into what would happen if I ran E85 in my car.

According to what I could find on Google, you CAN run E85 in any car. Unfortunately, it will cause the check engine light to come on, and may damage the engine and other parts long term.

But it looks like if you mix E85 and regular, in proportions up to perhaps 50% ethanol, you should not get the check engine light to come on.

So I bit the bullet. On the way home from work the other day, I topped off with E85. I got 5.575 gallons in there, which works out to be 30.4% ethanol.

So far, I've driven about 45 miles. I did some "testing" where I floored it, just to see if I could get the check engine light to come on. It didn't come on.

So I'm going to be doing some experiments:

What kind of mileage do I get on E85 mixtures? Straight up E85 should cause about a 30% decrease in mileage, but lower amounts of ethanol should not be as bad.

How much ethanol does it take before you get a check engine light?

Does any other damage occur by using E85? It has the reputation of dissolving rubber and causing metal to rust (not directly, but because it is very hydrophillic).

But again, from what I've found in my research, the Biopower Saab has the same parts as mine. I think the fuel system is made of materials that will survive E85 mixtures.

Start!

I started posting about my experiments with E85 mixes in my Saab 9-3 on my other blog www.bluecountyredstate.blogspot.com. But the focus of that blog is Lake County, Indiana politics, not my car and what I run in it. So I'm starting this blog for the express purpose of documenting my experiment.

I will repost all the E85 related posts from Blue County Red State over here.